Topic: | just a political question |
Author | Message |
by: Ashleythrockstar Aug. 6, '04 12:57pm
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... and maybe this isn't the place for it, but i'm curious anyway: Last night at open mic there was an announcement about getting bus tickets to go protest the republican convention... I was just wondering, what is being protested? Our right to assemble and express our opinions, or the fact that people don't all think the same way? I don't mean to be cynical or stir up anything, i'm just genuinely curious what's being protested. I'm not a big fan of the democratic party, but i just didn't watch the convention on TV. I didn't have to protest the fact that people disagree with me.
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by: patman Dec. 29, '04 2:59pm
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Ashley, were you protesting the fact that people were protesting the Republican National Convention? You must be an anti-radical radical.
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by: patman Dec. 29, '04 11:50pm
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I think, you thought, you weren't, protesting. I think, you were.
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by: patman Dec. 30, '04 7:46pm
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I don't know if you've read this yet but don't worry about it I'm only kidding.
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by: MikeOwl Jan. 4, '05 10:24pm
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Hey, Patman, here's those links I was telling you about:
http://www.truthout.org/
http://www.moveon.org/
Regarding the original subject of this thread I tried to hunt down a funny little article I read a few years ago called something like "Can You Be a Rocker and a Republican?"
Just to restate my own political stance: I am an independent, aligned with no political party. Michael Moore wrote in a recent essay that he guesses there are only about 200 Democrats left in Washington these days. I thought that was funny because the Republicans seem to think that if they beat the Democrats then they've won control of the country. Republicans forget that their real opposition is millions of Americans of a vast and varied lot; millions who will not give up their freedoms and will continue to rock on!
Wow, I started to feel like I was giving a speech at the end there. Peace and love to all, especially rockers who think they're Republicans- dig a little deeper and I bet we'll find a libertarian at least.
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by: stevemoss Jan. 5, '05 10:15am
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Around the 2000 Election, I toyed with registering as a Libertarian.
Seemed quite reasonable. But even among Libertarians, there's so much variety to individuals' positions that I'd rather stay independent and then decide case-by-case, judging upon the candidate rather than the party.
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by: markbce Jan. 5, '05 11:03am
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jan 15th at valentines there is a anti bush show. guest speakers, bands etc..
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by: patman Jan. 5, '05 10:24pm
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it looks like the weather will prevent me from harming myself. thanks 4 the links mike.
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by: patman Jan. 5, '05 10:30pm
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hey, comfy peeps, surf boarding is not a given. Anything can happen at any time. reference; nazi germany. oh, by the way, don't pay any attention to me. but, since i'm being a retard, W still scares me.
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by: MikeOwl Jan. 5, '05 11:41pm
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Patman's reference was to pre-WWII Germany being a liberal democracy, ie., it can't happen here. Here in the U.S.A., however there are numerous examples that illustrate that we are much further down the road to facism than many of us will admit.
The signs are there.
"Life is one big road, with lots of signs"
-Bob Marley
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by: patman Jan. 6, '05 12:48pm
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Thanks Mike. I was a bit vague there. I must think I'm some kind of poet or something. You probably have a better sense of history than me: also you're a good narrator. By the way, they made a movie about me years ago: the death poet's society. Yea, yea, that's the ticket.
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by: Ashleythrockstar Jan. 6, '05 2:43pm
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i'm glad i sparked some conversation... nobody really answered why people protested the convention. What's there to protest? Even if you're a Democrat, how can you protest the right of people with common views to assemble?
To some people, everything needs a protest. It seems as though some people aren't really FOR anything, they're just AGAINST a lot.
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by: patman Jan. 6, '05 3:52pm
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yea, some people are what i call "anti-everything", also known as a "rebel without a cause": and that ain't good. I would say they were protesting the policies of Bush. I think he wants to be a dictator more than a president. Some people protest because they're very concerned. It's a form of free speech in a free country. Some people take advantage of it, usually because they're egotistical, (obviously, it's been happenning on this site lately), but over all it's a very good idea.
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by: Ashleythrockstar Jan. 6, '05 5:19pm
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i agree protesting is a very good idea... when there's something legitimate to protest. In this case it seems people are protesting that not everyone agrees with them and that they have the right to convene and discuss these things.
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by: patman Jan. 6, '05 7:03pm
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To tell you the truth I'm not absolutely certain about that. I assumed that they were protesting AT the convention, NOT AGAINST it, but against Bush Cheney etc, and their policies.
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by: patman Jan. 14, '05 9:33pm
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.............right?
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by: CrayonArtist Jan. 15, '05 11:03am
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I see both of your points, patman and Ashley. On the one hand it makes alot of sense for your party to convene in protest of the oppossing party's convention. As if to say "Your ideas are crap, and I'm going to prevent you from spreading them, whenever I can."
However, it is their right to hold a convention. So anyone who protests is really protesting a "right" to do that. Which in and of itself is a ridiculous thing to do, due to the fact that when you convene in protest of the right to convene, then you are being a bit hypocritical.
I don't know...I guess that because I'm against Bush and his policies it makes me want to protest him and his administration whenever I can. I think that if I had the chance to gather with groups of people like me in order to stand up to Bush and his administration then the best time to do so is on a day when Bush supporters are gathering. IE, the convention. But as you said, Ashley, it sounds like they were going to protest the convention itself. Although, I think that the intention is to gather in protest of the administration, not the convention.
But, as patman said, there are alot of people who just want to protest anything. I'm sure alot of the people who went to this protest had no clue what they were really protesting...thus making liberals look like idiots... again.
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by: Ashleythrockstar Jan. 15, '05 1:29pm
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i just feel like i wouldn't personally go to a party's convention "in protest" because A- people would see that as intolerant, and B- because it would be intolerant. I'm all about protesting, but what's this type of protesting going to accomplish? All it does is make people (republicans) aware that not everyone thinks like them, which they already knew because this is America. Protests should be trying to accomplish something or to bring an awareness... but everyone already knew that Bush dissenters existed, so it's not bringing up an awareness of anything or getting anything done.
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by: CrayonArtist Jan. 15, '05 4:21pm
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I see what you are saying. It's basically a blind protest. Why, go through the trouble of congregating to show you are discontent with someone who is in opposition to you when it is clear to the opposition that you are discontent with their views. It doesn't make sense.
Sometimes, though, I don't think that Bush is capable of understanding that people are discontent with his views.
I don't remember the exact quote but he said something along the lines of: I will comprimise with anyone who agrees with me.
Now, that statement may have been made in jest (I'm moving to canada if he is dead serious), but anyone who would say something like that, obviously, is not someone who is going to take other people's points of view when making decisions.
Am I wrong? I mean, he will comprimise with those who agree with him but anyone else can what?
Keep quiet?
When a statement like that is made what choice do we have but to protest that person's appointment into a position of power. (sorry about all the p's)
I mean, even republicans have to admit that someone who makes a statement such as that is not a fair and just leader who serves the people, but a dictator who expects followers to join him because of his position.
Let us not forget that the position of President of the United States of America is a job. And that job is to serve the people of the USA.
I can't speak for everyone but if I were to abuse my position at my current job then I would end up getting fired.
So, in this instance, I'm more sympathetic to the protesters than the republican conventioners.
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by: Ashleythrockstar Jan. 15, '05 4:39pm
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i'm hoping as well that it was a statement made in jest-- kind of like in the movie "Love, Actually" when the president says "I'll give you anything you ask for, as long as it's something I want to give." Plus, let's not forget that our president's strong suit is in no stretch of the imagination public speaking... so this may have been a "strategery"-like messup. I'm not defending him, just trying to make sense of what he said.
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by: CrayonArtist Jan. 15, '05 5:15pm
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Statergy-haha...
Yeah, alot of presidents have "purposely" created little quirky things about themselves that border on the line of stupid, in order to give themselves personality. That way we have something to remember about them. Or so I should suspect.
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by: MikeOwl Jan. 16, '05 2:45am
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A lot of people are protesting against the Bush administration because they are scared as hell.
This administration really is a small group of people with extreme views that is not willing to even consider other peoples' points of views. Most of their opponents are not Democrats but rather a quirky bunch of free-thinkers who see through partisan politics to begin with.
I don't even think we need a president anymore...we're beyond that.
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by: Ashleythrockstar Jan. 16, '05 8:49pm
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just a few things...
Most administrations really are small groups of people.
Most politicians, well, essentially most people, aren't willing to consider other peoples' points of view. Some of us claim to be very open to other perspectives, but when it comes down to it, we just think we're right and anyone who thinks differently must be wrong. (I'm using the operative "we" to include myself and everyone I know, because I've picked up that behavior in myself and everyone I know.)
This is a little off-topic, but I think it's interesting how people talk about it being some sort of "unfair" that republicans kind of have control now-- or even that Bush is in office again. It isn't like they just went in, stormed the beach and took over. Obviously, people support the republican party, and the president, because of the way people get voted into office. The Democrats/non-republicans who complain about stuff like this wouldn't have any issues if democrats had control over everything... but I guess that's because most Democrats I know think that everyone's a democrat, Democrats are the vast majority and there are no Republicans and it's all a scam. (Hint: New York is a Democrat state. If you don't know any republicans, that's why, not because of some conspiracy theory)
OK so i went off on a tangient there but the conversation's been straying anyway.
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by: patman Jan. 16, '05 9:18pm
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Ashley, it must be fun/challening for you to act like you know what's going on. or...............................
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by: patman Jan. 16, '05 9:30pm
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or, you think you know.
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by: Ashleythrockstar Jan. 16, '05 9:38pm
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hm yeah that is fun although i don't think it's ever challenging when people act like they know what's going on. it comes naturally to most.
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by: patman Jan. 16, '05 9:42pm
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u flow like u no
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by: patman Jan. 16, '05 9:46pm
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CrayonArtist: Hope u didn'd hurt yourself, bending ovr backwards.
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by: patman Jan. 16, '05 9:52pm
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One of my favorite quotes of all-times is by George Harrison, "the more you know, the more you know you don't know anything". And i say, ask any genius, he'll tell you.
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by: patman Jan. 16, '05 10:03pm
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Ashely, if i offended you i apologize, that's not what i'm trying to do.
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by: Ashleythrockstar Jan. 16, '05 10:16pm
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no offense taken :)
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by: crayonartist Jan. 17, '05 4:59pm
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Bending over backwards?
I feel as though my comentary flowed nicely with no "bending" necessary.
When it comes to politics, there are going to be millions of different viewpoints on single situations. In other words, 50 different people will come up with 50 different plans on how to, say, deal with the war in iraq. And just like Ashley said, people don't want to consider other people's perspectives and thus yield to no opposition (even intelligent thinking) when implimenting "strategeries".
Which, is why we have term limits for the white house. And is why I, and many others I suspect, are upset that Bush is in the white house again.
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by: crayonartist Jan. 17, '05 5:20pm
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About the whole Dem vs Rep thing....
Can we not all agree that both sides have award winning strategies that will positively effect our country and the world? Would it not be best to have a person who is our leader or president who borrows from both dems and reps when making decisions?
I just wonder, do you think that george bush is one who "borrows from both dems and reps when making decisions?"
The last few posts have made me feel (although perhaps not intentionally) like a raving liberal. I really don't live in the woods in a tin foil enclosed cave hiding my existence from the evil government or whatever. I'm just not comfortable with Bush's leadership and thus feel sympathetic towards those who agressively attack him. But you are right, The american people voted for him.
People are allowed to be unhappy with that.
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by: patman Jan. 17, '05 7:49pm
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CrayonArtist, i'm with ya bud. bending over backwards to help people is what it usually means: i meant it well, i'm just too cryptic. Anyway, did the american people vote for him? type in mamma.com type in exit polls wrong. the 1st article was great, that's all i've read so far.
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by: crayonartist Jan. 17, '05 9:27pm
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Patman, I apologize, I read your message the wrong way and being that I'm in a bad mood tonight I...well, took it da wrong way
So, yeah, I've come across that exit poll...the erroneous results...before....
That is seriously frightening stuff....
Of course, we shouldn't be "un-american" and question our polling methods....
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by: Ashleythrockstar Jan. 18, '05 12:36am
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i'm sorry if i made you feel like a raving liberal... i didn't mean to, i'm pretty liberal about some things too which is why i hate this 2-party system where candidates have to have one label or the other but anyway...
about the exit polls and people cheating their ways into office... my boyfriend put it well when he told me that sure, the republicans probably cheated, but so did the democrats. the republicans just apparently did a better job, or there's more of them to cheat at it.
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by: CrayonArtist Jan. 18, '05 9:34am
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Thanks Ashley. It's not just this thread that is making me feel like a raving liberal though. I work with mostly conservitives and they are most of the problem.
But you make a good point about the cheating!
The republicans just cheated better this year. haha.
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by: Ashleythrockstar Jan. 18, '05 10:51am
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i know exactly what you mean-- i went to Christian high school so was always surrounded by very fundamentalist conservatives, making me feel like a flaming liberal. Now everyone I know are democrats, so I always feel like the ignorant conservative.
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by: patman Feb. 17, '05 9:47pm
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i'm not a democrat. i try to be apolitical. Would it scare anyone if the president of the usa was not legitimitaly elected? Let's just call it a sci-fi question........would it?
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by: patman Feb. 17, '05 9:52pm
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Going back to my 2nd to last post. The #'s change so check further....
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by: Ashleythrockstar Feb. 17, '05 10:21pm
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hmm well imagine if every single election ever were like that, not just this last one, and then it maybe wouldn't be so much fiction.
Gerald R. Ford: never elected as president or vice-president, not even in patman's sci-fi flick.
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by: patman Feb. 17, '05 10:49pm
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WOW! Creativity-A+, SASSY-A+, Missing the point, (or pretending to) .......Yes Ladies and Gentlemen..........A+!........ YOU RULE!
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by: patman Feb. 17, '05 11:43pm
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Would YOU protest if the prez were illegitimately elected?
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by: patman Feb. 17, '05 11:50pm
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i mean the whole voting machines, no more paper trail, the exit polls were wrong? thing. Somewhere someone said he believed the odds against the exit polls being wrong in 3 key states would be over 10,000 to 1!
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by: Ashleythrockstar Feb. 18, '05 12:03am
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i'm not rpotesting protesters at the moment, i'm just disagreeing with this mentality i've been coming across lately that Bush is the only president who's cheated to get into office. I mean, come on. Nobody got into office the true and honest way. I think we all know our politicians better than that. Bush just cheated better this time around.
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by: patman Feb. 18, '05 12:31am
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Ok. You're right. It's a good thing not to to read the newspaper,(and other stuff). i had that down until 9/11; then i said, woow, better pay attention. Just bomb/terroize me quick(ly), that's all i ask. Or worse, let me live....i'm just amusing myself...goodnight.
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by: Ashleythrockstar Feb. 18, '05 10:12am
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in that case, you're right, it's OK to make assumptions about people without looking into them first. Because I happen to read the newspaper almost on a daily basis. But you were probably talking about someone else.
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by: patman Feb. 18, '05 11:21am
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Yea, i meant me. i try to condense everything so i can type less and then i end up not being clear enough. i had this long period where i didn't read the newspaper...then 911 etc. It's just that the news can be so depressing. All the corruption in politics etc.
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by: patman Feb. 18, '05 1:13pm
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That part i said about you protesting didn't make any sense and the part i said about you don't get it was rude so i took it all out. Sorry to confuse you.
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by: Ashleythrockstar Feb. 18, '05 3:44pm
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it made sense to me-- and i do protest protesters when they don't have anything legitimate to protest...
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